J.J. Hurtak, Ph.D. and Desiree Hurtak, Ph.D.

Future Science

                                                                                                                                                        Photo by AFFS

JJ Hurtak is a Leo and Desiree Hurtak is a Sagittarius, both ENFP temperament types. JJ: We’d like to be defined by our intellectual and cultural accomplishments rather than simply by labels, which I think were a throwback to the ‘60s and ‘70s to the MMPI, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory studies. I think this tends to diminish people coming from multicultural backgrounds and those who have different takes on spiritual and consciousness reality. As we expand our views into the 21^st century, let’s just call us futurists because we are forward-looking multi-disciplinarians.

Desiree: We also call ourselves cosmic citizens and we celebrate our birthday as January 2^nd and 3^rd, 1973, when Dr. Hurtak had a unique experience while he was in Northern California. He was shown “future scientific information,” but knew that eventually the same wisdom and knowledge would progress in its own way to all of humanity. That is why his information was to be shared with humanity on fuller, more collective levels of genetics, astrophysics, and archaeology so that humanity is prepared to take a quantum leap forward. Our research indicates that humanity is ready to take that leap.

JJ: We are both from the Midwest. I am from the Minneapolis, Saint Paul area, my wife is from Chicago. I grew up in the Midwest, attended the University of Minnesota, the University of Chicago, and then the University of California where I began my academic work. My wife is from Chicago as well as Florida; she spent all of her early life there before she went to college in California. Our parents were professionals of European background who had more of a humanistic approach to life and I, as a young student, was allowed to study a wide variety of religious and cultural philosophies. In high school, I was in the Accelerated Learning Program and was interested in learning the ancient languages of the Classics and religious texts: Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. All of these were important languages for me because I was drawn to the substance of the spiritual, mystical traditions. I started to learn the linguistic tools and the cultural insights that would be necessary to persevere in these areas.

 My parents also encouraged me to study everything that pertained to the nature of life. I studied Judaic, Christian, even the Buddhist movements of thought and philosophy, learning the languages and the disciplines necessary to be a scholar. I was especially interested in the areas of comparative religion, anthropology, linguistics, and the cognitive sciences and their mystical aspects as applied to modern-day explorations of paraphysics and consciousness. At an early age, I was also invited by the famous Robert Hutchins to participate as a fellow at The Center for The Study of Democratic Institutions in Santa Barbara, California.

Desiree’s father received his medical diploma for surgery at the University of Vienna. DH: Both Dr. Hurtak’s parents and my parents were not very involved in religious studies so we could do what we wanted and they respected that. I was a child of the ‘60s, at a time when books like Be Here Now by Ram Dass and An Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda were read as East was meeting West. As these philosophies were coming of age, I read most of them. I thought the ideas were fantastic and enlightening. My mom was a very independent person. She started as a Catholic but realized that there were so many controls that she didn’t want to place them on her kids. She told us you can get divorced if you really need to. She realized that she had also a connection to the Divine and did not have to go through a minister or priest.

JJ: My first paraphysical experience took place when I was 16 years old. I was reading one of the ancient texts, the text of Ezekiel, when a sphere of light appeared in my room and I thought this was a good sign. I had studied religious philosophy, including many ancient texts of the Near East and the Far East. I decided to take a trip to Egypt in the 1960s when the importance of the Nag Hammadi Coptic text was recognized by scholars as throwing light onto the missing books of the Bible and providing a greater focus on the ancient knowledge that shaped Western civilization. What languages did you know as an adolescent besides Hebrew? Mainly Latin and Greek, which gave me a head start in looking more systematically at the influences of the Near Eastern cultures that turned out to be a bridge to my studies of Sanskrit and the Oriental traditions.

DH: I met my husband at the California Institute of the Arts in the Los Angeles area. JJ: I was hired by Walt Disney’s brother Roy to teach science to young actors and filmmakers. DH: Dr. Hurtak was one of the founding professors at Cal Arts in 1970, including some of the great minds in music such as Ravi Shankar and Leonard Bernstein. JJ: I was also teaching in the School of Critical Studies with Art Critic Max Kozloff and other leading futuristic thinkers. DH: On the art side, there was Judy Chicago, Sheila de Bretteville, Miriam Schapiro, Arlene Raven, etc. I interviewed some of these feminists in my book on women’s culture and brought them to CSUC for a conference, which was edited in a video called Feminist Visions of the Future available on my YouTube channel.

DH: When I met him, he was taking his students to the Self-Realization Fellowship founded by Yogananda in Los Angeles in 1920. We also visited Dr. Thich Thien-An, a Vietnamese Buddhist scholar who had a school called The University of Oriental Studies, where Dr. Hurtak would occasionally teach.

How did you have time to get two Ph.D.s and a divinity degree?JJ: I was gifted with a deep interest in everything under the sun that dealt with ancient texts, as well as futurism, and so I decided that I would get degrees in what some thinkers call the four quadrants (social, historical, spiritual, and scientific), which took considerable time. I started my theological training in my teens, but with my multi-disciplinary work and travels that brought me around the world, it took me 25 years of studying eight major religions to come up with five advanced degrees. Part of this involved Coptic and Greek writings.

Later, Desiree and I translated the Pistis Sophia documents of the second and third century A.D., written in ancient Greek and Coptic languages. The five volumes run about 1000 pages, so this was a major undertaking. DH: The Pistis Sophia is a well-accepted Coptic Christian text read by the Egyptians and Christians in the first centuries of the present era, giving insight on the teachings of Christ. Of course, this text is not accepted by the Roman Catholics. It explains the story of Jesus’ female disciples. Mary Magdalene and Martha talk about theology after the resurrection of Jesus when he reappeared to his disciples by temporarily returning from the higher realms to instruct both his male and female disciples.

JJ: It provides a teaching on the Divine Feminine by means of the narrative vehicle of Sophia, the symbol of Wisdom who is in search of higher truth. This allows for a dialog covering many theological questions initiated by Mary Magdalene. I think it is the most important post-New Testament document available in early Christianity, in the context of Jesus’ time as a healer, a miracle worker, and representative of the messianic office. The text also explains the Judaic traditions and Oriental mystical traditions with very profound truths, encouraging everyone to search for the Divine through humility, service to humanity, and “putting on the mind of Christ” through Wisdom.

DH: In our book, the Pistis Sophia Text and Commentary, regarding this ancient scroll, we provide commentary to explain the meaning of the mystical text. We wrote a similar commentary for the ancient scroll called The Gospel of Mary thought to be written by Mary Magdalene, also found in the Coptic literature. Both show that women played a major philosophical role in early Christianity. Some of these books are available through Amazon and some through our website (keysofenoch.org).

What kind of insights came from the studies of Sophia and Mary Magdalene?JJ: The African and the Eastern churches never marginalized the role of the female, unlike what we historically saw in the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. The female concept of Sophia in the Greek (or the word Chokmah in the Hebrew) is associated with wisdom and in some instances with the work of the Holy Spirit. During the first three centuries of Christianity, before it became politicized by the Roman Empire, there was a very open and charismatic aspect to Christianity. That’s why you have so many miracles taking place in the Middle East, North Africa, and Asia before Christianity became dogmatized and politicized. For most in the West, the female element was lost, the divine female nature that represents our co-participation with the Divine Spirit or Holy Spirit is only recently being restored.

Our personal emphasis is to move away from the political hierarchies of power to the cosmic horizon of intelligent life in the universe, which, as part of the Godhead, represents a form of life that has no restrictions related to dimensions or stellar systems. Greater life encompasses ultra-terrestrial dimensions, but also the Divine Linkage within us, not simply thousands of light-years away. When you learn that there is no end to the myriad worlds spinning throughout nature, we move into a deeper spirituality and begin to integrate science and spirituality back together to see that we are on a much larger journey and that the blueprint of higher evolution provides everyone with Wisdom.

Desiree, what was your Ph.D. subject area and how did you learn those ancient languages? DH: My masters from Syracuse was in International Relations and my Ph.D. was from The New School for Social Research, that is, The New School University, and my topic was Environmental Public Policy, where we connected often with the United Nations. I attended Cal Arts to study environmental design and architecture and moved into seeing how countries and people can talk with each other about important issues.

What have been the most difficult challenges in your life and how have you coped?JJ: The challenge is to bring the spiritual and scientific together: The spiritual represents the female side of the human mind, the multidimensional and creative side; while the male represents the more logical, scientific, pragmatic side of the human creation. Our work has been to resolve the dialectic between these two different traditions. We publish widely both in scientific journals as well as in publications on “New Thought” and participate at major conferences dealing with world unity in religion and science. To this end, we were recently presenters in Toronto at the World’s Parliament of Religions, which is an inspiring forum where we’ve presented our work five times during the recent decades.

DH: Fortunately, we really haven’t had personal problems because we’ve had each other so we could support each other. In fact, some people say we should give courses on marriage. What would it include? JJ: To be highly empathetic, altruistic, and highly forgiving. Also, be aware of the limitations of the human psyche and seek a higher ground, a common ground for inner change between the space of creativity and the space of the heart. From a woman’s point of view, wasn’t it hard to have equality when you started your relationship as professor-student? DH: Yes, it took a while for me to grow into it. I only partly spoke in lectures and radio shows with him before the 1990s. Since the 1990s, we teach and talk together all the time. The most important thing I would say for a marriage is the finding of greater commonalities and greater sharing.   

Some people complain that Dr. Hurtak’s work tends to emphasize the masculine, which they see in both science and in Judeo-Christian philosophy, but it really does not fly when I am taking part in the sharing. The main artist in The Keys of Enoch® was a woman and I also created several pictures in the book, as well as the cover [and this book’s cover image]. So there’s a lot of feminine in there as well. He’s always been very open to sharing, which is what makes it work! We know from your work that you understand that the feminine aspect has the balance of masculine within it, but both are needed to find that inner balance and that greater peace.

Did you have children along the way or have you been too busy with books? DH: Our books and audio creations are our children! Putting out this information in the 1970s was our challenge until science later came out with what we call “scientific confirmations.” For example, around 2010, Lika Guhathakurta of NASA headquarters in Washington DC said the exact same thing as Dr. Hurtak wrote in his book The Keys of Enoch® in the 1970s:that our “sun is a variable star.” Until that time our Sun was considered pretty steady in its patterns of solar flares and other cycles. Now a new understanding shows energetic changes and variability. We are having less difficulty now getting our points across, but in the 1970s there was a lot of ignorance about these topics. When Dr. Hurtak wrote The Keys of Enoch® in 1973, it was a pioneering book in that it talks about pyramids when people didn’t even understand what a pyramid really was, more specifically the alignment of the Great Pyramid with stars in the belt of Orion.

DH: Where we were really challenged was in getting the information out to people across the world and getting them to understand the non-local, multi-level, multi-dimensional universe that we live in and, most importantly, that we are all interconnected! This means we can all make a difference in what we do. JJ: What also disturbs us is the overemphasis on a culture of violence that poses a great challenge. It’s critical for humanity to participate in a raising of consciousness to create a “culture of peace,” to bring all traditions together on a higher level, with a meta-language to provide inner experiences and greater resources that go beyond the paradigms of traditional science, politics, and religion. They tend to be singular and self-serving in trying to hold on to power in a more parochial way rather than being pluralistic.

JJ: A good example of positive work came from Dr. Masaru Emoto from Japan, whom we sponsored in New York and also at the United Nations.¹ DH: Emoto taught us you need to be careful of what you say to your children because if you hit them or become negative towards them, you are affecting the whole consciousness around them and you. He showed how your physical body, through the power of water, literally changes with positive and negative thoughts. He tried to awaken people to this, which has also been our struggle.

DH: We are optimistic that this unity can arise, but for now we feel we are pulling the mental dinosaurs along with us. We have lectured with Dr. Eben Alexander* who also has experienced this difficulty, and Dr. Hurtak wrote a book with Russell Targ* who also was challenged for his work in paraphysics. We worked extensively with Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher, a nuclear physicist from UC Berkeley, who worked with Targ in the ‘70s to research RV. We authored a recent book with her entitled Mind Dynamics. When you study RV around the world, you realize this is a scientific breakthrough connected with quantum physics, because it shows a non-local reality where there is no separation of any kind. Dr. Rauscher’s theory on quantum physics, due to her knowledge of RV, literally takes on another dimension that she calls “eight space” or eighth-dimensional space. What we call “complex eight space” is where time and space come together allowing for certain types of mind-over-matter activities to occur, e.g., RV, allowing for concurrent and consistence information to filter into our spacetime.

JJ: We are happy to say that things have moved very quickly in the last 45 years as we see a plethora of friends and colleagues in many disciplines who see the pluralistic model as opposed to the parochial model of self-individualism. Again, we see our biggest challenge is to bring together the spiritual and scientific in a complementary way. Here, it can be defined as the ancient religious/spiritual philosophy that needs to work with scientific futurism, which is why we formed The Academy For Future Science. In essence, we feel there is always a higher road which includes science guided by Consciousness.

JJ: There was a separation for 400 years in the West between scientific philosophy and religious philosophy, which created a mental vacuum as to how the mind works or creates on multi-levels. Now a considerable co-creativity is arising. However, in the Eastern traditions, it was better understood and is akin to our studies in RV and remote sensing which demonstrate the possibility that we are but one evolutionary experience in the midst of myriad evolutionary experiences in an open-ended cosmology.

DH: New findings in science are bringing us closer to religion, whether it be of the Eastern or Western traditions. The premise behind the book Dr. Hurtak wrote with Russell Targ* called The End of Suffering unites both quantum physics and the philosophy of the Eastern sage, Nagarjuna, who provided profound insights into mental liberation. Nagarjuna is the sage who says that life is not black or white, it’s actually both and neither, going into all possible alternatives and even those that are not real alternatives. That’s really what we are seeing with quantum physics: light is both a particle and a wave, but we can affect it as the Observer.

JJ: Our religious and philosophical thrust acknowledges the contribution of great minds, like Nagarjuna who is considered the second Buddha by the Dalai Lama. We are interested in the writers of the Sutras, the Heart Sutra, for example, the Lotus Sutra in the Eastern tradition. We’re also interested in the prophets and mystics of the Western tradition, including Martin Buber who was a great Judaic thinker in the 1930s and ‘40s, a period demonstrating “the dark side of the human psyche.”

Let’s go into more depth with your mystical experience in 1973.JJ: I was meditating, because as a young scholar I believed I could not teach my students the concepts of the transcendental without understanding what some would call higher states of consciousness. I began to use a combination of seed syllables from various sacred pathways, combining the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Coptic, and Sanskrit languages. From what I read, I felt that certain states of consciousness could be accelerated, without drugs, through these vibrations, much like saying mantras in the East.

At one point, a morphogenetic door opened before me. A paraphysical reality came forth, where I was able to see a Whole Light Being, like an angelic form, but it was a higher Teacher or spiritual guide. I was literally bilocated into a greater realm of Light and from then on my whole reality changed. I saw how to use the sparks of wisdom that could help draw together threads of commonality in the different religious traditions through a higher path of peace, nonviolence, and wisdom. I also saw how there is a higher unity in terms of science and spiritual dynamics, through a universal Consciousness that can be used both in locality and non-locality in the sense of quantum physics. It enables us to acquire information and gain the ability to use the gifts of the paraphysical, the paranormal. This led me to begin to reach out with a positive psychology and sociology for the advancement of the human race.

Did this angelic-like being provide you with the seed sounds or is that something you used to get into the experience? JJ: I had been studying the importance of musical linguistics and sound resonance, along with right consciousness thinking. I was given a gift from the higher realms of Intelligence to have a face-to-face dialog with a Being of Light.DH: We encourage people to have their own spiritual practices, including that of the mystics, but Dr. Hurtak’s experience was quite unique as he was taken beyond our space and time. This could be called a Merkabah experience. JJ: The term Merkabah is used in my book because it is really a vehicle that can take you beyond the limitations of any extraterrestrial spaceship; it is a multidimensional vehicle that can take you into the higher dimensions.

When I think of Merkabah, I think of sacred geometry. JJ: Yes, it is sacred geometry, not to be confused with a metal UFO extraterrestrial spaceship. We have illustrated some aspects of this in our animated, award-winning video entitled Merkabah, Voyage of A Starseed.DH: The Hebrew definition of the word Merkabah in English is “vehicle” so it can be any vehicle in the real sense. In ancient tradition, the Merkabah is generally considered to be a higher vehicle that took the prophets into other realms. Paul, in the New Testament, was taken to the third heaven–much like Ezekiel in the Old Testament, through what would be classified as Merkabah experiences.2 Kabbalists and ancient Biblical sages divided the heavens in this way.

What kind of download of information did you get? JJ: I gained information covering a wide variety of subjects, 64 areas of science and consciousness and information about the past, present, and future, and insights like how the genetic matrix of our DNA is connected with a multi-level God Code. The God-Code is a code of knowledge through which one sees the mathematics of the universe unfolding down to atoms and the genetic code of our bodies, which we claim confirms the existence of a Universal Mind. For the most part, these areas were futuristic, but also included deeper insights regarding historic places and areas of contact around the world where certain artifacts of knowledge would be found. So in short, it was a series of mental images including archival information that I would be personally involved with during the rest of my life–and that has come to pass.

How have you continued to pursue this download? JJ: In the last 45 years, we’ve worked in Egypt, Japan, Mexico, and other countries where we uncovered archaeological information suggesting an earlier stratum of civilized life on Mother Earth that was behind the great myths and legends. We were part of the team, for example, that uncovered the Tomb of Osiris in Giza, Egypt. Humanity understands these legends on one level but dismisses their reality on another. I believe most legends have relevance to the human psyche in some manner. Do you think evolved beings seeded earth and taught early humans? Yes, I feel that the ancient Greek and Hebrew concepts of Creation allude to the fact that life comes from a higher level or dimension, which took place during a “golden age.” This is one possible explanation which is also alluded to in our recent book called Giza’s Industrial Complex (by Drs. Hurtak and James Brown)which shows that the Egyptians made use of an advanced science.

 DH: This book shows how the ancient area of Egypt where the Great Pyramid is found could reveal a technology that is similar to what we are developing today in terms of hydrogen fuel cells and similar technologies using hydrogen gas derived from water.JJ: This is quite an explosive book, based on possible ancient technology. Many cultural historians and anthropologists acknowledge the fact that the Egyptians had a “Golden Age of the Gods” with possible visitations from levels of cosmic intelligence, as recorded by early Egyptian writers. These legends talk about a higher level of intelligent life that was momentarily in the Middle East in early times, bringing forth scientific trade-offs in the building of massive monuments that had stellar accuracy.

This sounds like a huge download of information to unpack for the rest of your life. How did you remember it or record it? DH: This relates back to quantum physics and consciousness. When Dr. Hurtak experienced this information, he saw it as visual scenarios coded within his mind, which he detailed as 64 main Keys shown in calligraphy script in The Keys of Enoch® over 600 pages.

What’s an example of one of the Keys? JJ: The book details many ancient sacred areas of the Earth. One is the alignment of the Great Pyramid is with the Belt of Orion, which was not known in 1973. Specifically, I describe how the south shaft from the Kings Chamber points to the three major stars in the Belt of Orion: Mintaka, Alnitak, and Alnilam, while the north shaft points to the circumpolar stars. This was later confirmed by astronomical maps made by computers that could go back in astrophysical time to analyze the past. They were able to show how the star shafts were indeed aligned with the stars in the Belt of Orion, some 800 to 1300 light-years away from Mother Earth. These star shafts are very small, precise, and orientated through hundreds of meters of stone, suggesting that the Great Pyramid was an astrophysical gauge or computer within a massive monumental construction using precise calculations. A similar alignment of the Giza Plateau to Orion was popularized by Robert Bauval, Adrian Gilbert, and others working with him in 1993, 20 years later.

So information came from those stars in Orion’s Belt that people could access through the pyramid?JJ: The alignment of pyramids all over the world with the three stars in the Belt of Orion is an important gauge of an astrophysical connection with ancient cultures showing a common grid of measurement, including a mathematical and astronomical understanding of our universe at a much earlier period than described by the Europeans. The Giza Pyramids are like an astrophysical computer showing the procession of the equinoxes, revealing that the ancient Egyptians and their predecessors were able to use a sophisticated calendar cycle, not just showing solar and lunar cycles, but also astronomical cycles built specifically into their massive structures.

DH: Moreover, we did not know in the ‘70s that we exist in the so-called Orion arm of our Milky Way. Another recent discovery was that not only did the Egyptians connect with Orion, but so did the Mayan culture. This information came from an astro-archaeologist named Linda Schele, which is one of the key points that Dr. Hurtak understood from his experience. Many cultures mention Orion and many places all around the world actually have monuments with alignments to Orion, indicating a mythology that most people haven’t recognized.

Some people talk about the Pleiadeans or other ETs who’ve been helpful, like John Ryan’s* Sireans. DH: The Pleiades is a significant star system in mythology and legends, but there are many other star systems. When Dr. Hurtak was bilocated beyond this planet, he went through certain superluminal dimensions of reality where his body was actually gone for a couple of days. He explained a multidimensional reality, but this is not channeling. He had students who actually did lose him for a period of between 36 to 48 hours. JJ: When I came back, there was actually a bioluminescent around my body that my students could see for several weeks afterwards. DH: In fact, many unique experiences took place around him during the rest of the year.

JJ: The Keys of Enoch® looks at a variety of disciplines because it contains 64 areas of science that include complicated formulae. It further examines ideas overlooked by cultural historians and theologians, providing a vast blueprint for world thinkers to ponder. I was very mindful while bringing this information forward because I didn’t want my experience to be taken out of context. At the same time, I wanted this information to be thoroughly researched. I was already trained in field research with remote sensing using ground-penetrating radar and other means of establishing what is called “ground truth” by geologists and physicists. I also was aware of RV work going on at SRI and in Russia (see Russell Targ*),

DH: Dr. Hurtak was told that this information is being shown to us to prepare us for a quantum leap in all areas of knowledge. I come from an environmental background and clearly, our planet isn’t doing so well. We may have to advance our technology in order to survive. We have to realize that we need solar and wind energy; we need to advance ourselves consciously too, so if we do encounter other cosmic intelligences, we are prepared with better knowledge and we need to understand our own genetic makeup. We need to grow into a new cosmology of consciousness to help all life forms on this planet.

JJ: We also had the opportunity to dialogue over many years with people around the world: from the Americas’ indigenous people to the native peoples of southern Africa. We found that many of these indigenous people refer to Orion as some sort of spiritual gateway or astrophysical threshold behind civilization. We have also had the honor to be asked to speak on behalf of certain Brazilian tribes at environmental conferences, including some sponsored by the United Nations such as The Rio+20 in Brazil, 2012.

 What’s the importance of this connection to Orion? JJ: In the Book of Job, Chapter 38, we find a reference to “sons of God” and Orion as an area in the heavens that is part of the blueprint of astrophysics. DH: Orion may be a portal to other realms, but we don’t believe you will find little green men or strange-looking extraterrestrials. We are an Adamic species that may have its origins in the heavens so “we” will find “us” in the stars as well. You may find us in Alpha Centauri, one of the nearest other solar systems, you may find us in the Pleiades and you may find we have an Orion connection. If you don’t find us, you may find some of our cosmic cousins. Some will look like us and have similar types of intelligence and many are not like us. We are looking at cosmic life like a biological textbook with different categories of which there may be as many as 70+ different species that we’ve identified through our research with anthropologists, social scientists, shamans. and indigenous leaders who we’ve spoken with in more than 130 countries. So there are 70 types of ETs? Yes, we are dealing with a much larger cosmo-biological textbook composed of physical, as well as non-physical life forms.

DH: They’re beyond the third and fourth dimensions, as we mentioned regarding the research of Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher about fifth- to eighth-dimensional realities. Dr. Rauscher feels that RV is seeing beyond the third and fourth dimensions, which make up our local spacetime. RV is the science of seeing events at a distance beyond what the physical eyes can see, where you can “observe” what is taking place on the other side of the planet. Although non-locality is also a clue, what is taking place, as we have argued in scientific papers, is the observer influencing reality from the eighth dimension. It’s the area of complex reality where space and time link together past, present, and future. Is it just our consciousness that exists in the eighth dimension, or are there other beings that function in those dimensions as well? Who are the angels that exist in our cosmology? Are they in other dimensions, maybe even in the 8^th or 24^th dimension? More importantly, if quantum physics and non-locality work everywhere, the angels or light beings don’t have to leave the 24^th dimension, they only need to place (i.e., superposition) their consciousness linkage where we are now, to be here too.

JJ: We have a plethora of categories of beings. We have the ETs and we also have the “ultraterrestrials” who are different from physical extraterrestrials. We use the expression “the cosmic others” to include representations from more than 70+ different cultures–some are physical, while others are in an energy form. You know about these because of your own mystical communication and talking with shamans or how? JJ: I have also consulted with some of the former astronauts once they retired and were more open to talking about what they experienced when they were in outer space. I have put some of this information in a video entitled Extraterrestrial Realities. I worked with astronaut Gordon Cooper who was a pioneer in space. Desiree and I worked with the famous American novelist, Sydney Sheldon, on a book published in the early 1990s called The Doomsday Conspiracy. It deals with actual contact that American government officials had with ETs. Although it is written as science fiction, it was based on fact.

Gordon Cooper and I both spoke to the former Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kurt Waldheim, as well as the late Kofi Annan, about the need to have a space policy to accept the ET hypothesis and to go beyond the secrecy bubble which tends to put out disinformation. We believe we are in the midst of a process of orientation so that all of humanity will be prepared for contact with the other worlds of intelligence. The understanding has to come through advanced science or future science.

DH: A lot of the cosmology we understand today as the norm, Dr. Hurtak saw in his experience when it was still unknown in the 1970s. For example, we now know there are trillions and trillions of stars, there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, etc. For every star we see now (I learned this from an astrophysicist connected with the University of Massachusetts), there are at least five to seven planets around most stars. There are also rogue planets, called wandering planets, that don’t orbit stars. There may be more wandering planets than there are orbiting planets. There may even be some extremophiles living on Earth that could also live on Mars or Venus. Of course, most scientists do not feel that advanced life could reach us at this time.

 JJ: They did find some unique structural, fossilized-looking forms that may have existed in the past on Mars when they cut open the Allan Hills Meteorite 84001 that was catapulted from Mars to the Antarctic. DH: A meteorite was found there in 1984 probably came from Mars. Inside there was some sort of structure that looked like an organic fossil. Many scientists do feel that this was confirmation that there is or was some primitive life form, probably not on the surface of Mars any longer, but possibly existing underneath the surface.

Do ETs have physical bodies? DH: We believe there are myriads of life forms in space, some primitive, some looking like us, and some more advanced life forms perhaps operating in multidimensions. Certainly, we have all heard of legends and many are starting to have experiences in their lives where they sense other levels of intelligence in their midst. We further believe there is a cosmic consciousness force that is behind all life, which can be seen in some of life’s synchronicities. I think synchronicity is so important to be aware of and can be very profound like when you run into an old friend in a coffee shop and it changes your whole life. We actually recognize a higher divinity behind everything.

Do you agree that our most pressing problem is the environment and that we don’t have much time to prevent global warming that will fry us? Do you think that zero-point energy can replace fossil fuels and help save us? DH: We’ve worked in the alternative energy field for the last 40 years. Look at California for example, having major fires! So when you say fry us, you are literally talking about what is happening right now to many people just down the street from you.We are not doomsayers, but we’ve worked a lot with technology and spin-offs from hydrogen energy technology–the ancient Egyptians probably used some form of hydrogen energy. We are always excited to hear about zero-point energy devices that use vacuum fluctuations or even electromagnetic generators and thrusters. In principle, they have been shown to work but building them for public use is only in the future.

We do need alternative energy resources because the more destructive our environment becomes the more violence and stress are placed on our society. At one point I was an adjunct professor at the State University of New York and I showed my students that when you have environmental crises, you end up having political and economic crises as well. Why do we have all the immigration from Africa and Central America? Many are literally starving because of lack of rain or changes to their environment. JJ: In North and in Central Africa especially, so we are looking at a much larger picture. When I was a Director of TMAC (Technology and Marketing Analysis Corporation) in San Francisco, we brought literally thousands of engineers, scientists, and businessmen together in the 1980s to look at the possibility of a new approach through renewable and alternative energies, but the paradigms were not opened enough to allow this great leap forward in science.

DH: The Keys of Enoch® actually uses the term “zero-point energy” back in the early 1970s. This is the concept of using energy from beyond our local structure, so you don’t violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, maybe using even a multidimensional reality of pulling in energy from other realities through either quantum or electromagnetic fields. This will be a great breakthrough and scientists all over the world are working on this. However, I think the next, most immediate step will most likely be hydrogen energy derived from water, maybe even saltwater, and we have plenty of it. But it takes a lot of energy to create hydrogen fuel. DH: Yes and no. There are different ways of breaking down molecules of water and you don’t have to do it completely to create an “oxyhydrogen” mix; or if you do, you can use solar energy to separate the water and that is almost free. In addition to hydrogen fuel there are those who are trying to utilize alternative energy fields, like Elon Musk who created SpaceX, Tesla Motors, and supported SolarCity and now Neuralink because he is concerned that AI intelligence may out-think us.

When we have a deeper understanding of consciousness, we realize we are all interconnected and what we think and do affects everybody around us. Then we can start graduating into a more peaceful and more loving society, in which case we can also stop being preoccupied with ourselves and find and implement new ways to help the planet. That’s what quantum physics is all about–that interconnectedness that we all share and the entanglement that makes all of us part of one humanity.

JJ: We want to emphasize that greater breakthroughs will come through a consciousness shift as mentioned in our book Mind Dynamics in Space and Time, co-authored with Dr. Rauscher, in which we show the practical side of RV. It is the power of mental communication whereby we can travel into outer space. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell had an epiphany while he was coming back on the Apollo mission. He later communicated certain mathematical symbols, received by colleagues Ingo Swann and Harold Sherman. Through RV, we, too, were able to work over long distances to find underground artifacts in Egypt. All of this opens up a whole new door to the power of consciousness.                 

 Were you both able to do RV as well as study it? DH: Dr. Rauscher is far better than us, but we do it from time to time. JJ: I did RV back in the early ‘70s to see and publish the pyramidal formations on Mars later seen by NASA when they did the Mariner 9 studies, as described in The Keys of Enoch®. We were the first to break the story with actual pictures that there were pyramidal formations on Mars. NASA was intrigued but they saw them as natural formations. However, to us, they suggest that at one time, Mars, our sister planet, possibly had a similar biosphere that could house intelligent life.

Could you comment about space law? JJ: Space law is the blueprint for exo-industrialization and future colonization. We have publications in several legal and aerospace journals stating that we need not only a global ethic, but we need a space ethic. With the ongoing commercialization of space and sometimes even the desire to place weapons of mass destruction in space, changes need to be made. We worked with astronaut Edgar Mitchell who, before he died, put forth a treaty on space law in collaboration with his colleague Carol Rosin to try to protect outer space from becoming weaponized. In Brazil, I also added some chapters to a book called Space Law (Directo Especial). It’s in Portuguese and hopefully will be translated into English. The book details the norms that we must keep in mind as we go to our sister planets, to avoid the exploitation of their planetary resources, while at the same time building our civilization in space.

What do you do to get into the receptive space so you can do RV or access higher information?DH: The key to RV, as Targ and Rauscher will tell you, is that everybody can do it. Targ emphasizes this because initially, he didn’t think he could do it until he tried. When he had to RV a target in South America he was very successful. It’s really about quieting/clearing your mind and then noting the very first thing that comes to your mind even if it doesn’t make sense to you. For example, once Uri Geller only saw two circles with some lines connecting them. He did not understand the image, although his RV drawing turned out to be very accurate as the object was eyeglasses; it doesn’t have to make sense; that’s the key. Some people do this all the time without knowing it.JJ: So take a step beyond the traditional paradigm of logic and separation and you can begin to see with “all space,” where the whole horizon of knowledge literally makes itself available to your mind.

DH: We were with Rupert Sheldrake in England who has shown how dogs and cats also have this ability. There is even a psychic parrot he tested in New York that is able to remote view. The tribe of people we’ve been working with in Brazil do it all the time. If they need rain, they work with the forces of nature to bring rain. More and more people are starting to see the truth, especially young people. They are actually RVing and having experiences on other consciousness levels and it’s natural for them.

JJ: We hope your readers will take time to look at books I have co-authored with Targ and Rauscher. In a third book, I wrote an introduction with Russian scientists called Reflections on Life and Intelligence on Planet Earth. These books deal with how leading investigators all over the world are looking into the paraphysical door that is now being opened through the powers of consciousness.

Are you suggesting that we can be trained to access information through RV and the paranormal to get answers to our problems?DH: We know scientists in Silicon Valley who have used the technique of RV and paranormal awareness successfully, although some may simply call it inspiration, but they have been very successful in defining new technology. Even Einstein meditated every morning for inspiration. We know this because he often stayed in Palm Springs in a house later purchased by a friend of ours, who found records of Einstein and pictures of him there. Targ did a successful RV study of the silver commodities market and this was followed up by a similar study by the University of Colorado at Boulder (see Garret Moddel*).3 We are not suggesting this type of use, but it has worked successfully when properly tested.JJ: So, the thrust is that consciousness is the variable for quantum transitions. The bottom-line for the future should be future science, which is science guided by consciousness.

How do you define consciousness? JJ: Consciousness is more than the flow of sodium ions in your brain. Consciousness is a field of energy, that establishes a holistic experience, not limited to the third or fourth dimensions. The ancients would call the field “divine spirit” as a function of the Holy Spirit, which encompasses the whole field of mental, physical, and spiritual functions, providing visionary inputs that take us into the reality of a multidimensional universe. DH: The movie called Interstellar (2014), directed by Christopher Nolan, is very much like what we are talking about. I hope we do not have to go to that extreme, where the whole planet was falling apart. However, in the movie the main actor had to communicate from the fifth dimension to help provide his daughter with crucial information in order to save the planet, but we would say that we have cosmic cousins who are trying to help us in a similar way. Specifically, there are other divine realms of intelligence trying to give us the information and say, “Hey, stop it. Wake up.” However, if they came and just did it all for us, it wouldn’t be our experience of growth.

JJ: We are, in a sense, in consciousness oneness with the Universal Mind. We can share in a divine and human partnership. We are also sparks of the Divine in human form waking up to the awesome powers of the universe. As humanity, we are now graduating from the old paradigms of control into one where we will have free energy and free speech in terms of higher scientific wisdom that allows our mind to enter into greater levels of spiritual evolution. Ultimately, we will behold cosmic contact with other civilizations that have gone beyond the quagmire of planets like ours. They will reveal to us the breakthroughs we need, but we must implement them ourselves as we engineer new possibilities of life.

            Are you optimistic in the face of contemporary environmental and political problems? DH: Like Jesus, we would say, let us pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s. We prefer not to become involved in politics. It must come down to each individual and their inner guidance trying to create a better world.

JJ: We are in a cosmic dialectic between formation and transformation, so there will always be those elements pulling humanity down to the lowest levels of consciousness and those elements seeking to go upwards into a greater cosmic reality. We try to stay on the positive side. We can use the gifts of inductive linkage or the “mind reach” when we realize we are vessels and vehicles that have a universal linkage to the Divine. We are here to experience the human dimension and be in partnership with the divine dimension to open new doors in spite of the dinosaurs that will have to die off, and the old paradigms that have to fall away.DH: We know we are living in a vast and awesome universe and are part of a greater Creation. We can sit and complain about all the negative scenarios, or we can move ourselves to be part of a higher Divine Plan. We are learning, we are growing, and we are positively not alone.

What does your AFS organization do? How is it funded? Where are you headed with that? DH: The Academy for Future Science is an international non-governmental organization. We have publications in over 20 different languages and we work all over the world, both for the environment, as well as for a greater consciousness understanding. We try to provide a higher, holistic cosmology. JJ: We also work in support of the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) to raise the consciousness of humanity, helping people in developing countries to close the digital, education, and gender gap. The global commons is a place where people can open the doors through the internet to a positive future in spite of negative scenarios that come from the media that is entrenched in negative or dualistic thinking.

DH: People can find us on our main websites: keysofenoch.org and futurescience.org. JJ: Our graphic video films The Merkabah and The Light Body give an experience of swimming in hyperspace, being able to go into different dimensions through different scenarios of sacred geometry, color, and historic reality.

 DH: In addition to great videos, we have inspiring musical recordings that incorporate the Western and Eastern traditions, from singers and musicians living in Europe, South Africa, South America, and the USA.JJ: We have worked with Carlos Santana to share positive, spiritual inspirations. In terms of recording, we worked with Alice Coltrane and Jocelyn Smith, some of the great musicians and singers of our contemporary society who also have higher consciousness awakening. Music allows us to become metahumans and cosmic humans.Music opens the heart of compassion and opens the higher mind and can be a universal message for humanity and the divine spark within all of life. So we want to open the door for all to realize we have a vast library of teaching that covers the scientific, the social, the psychological, as well as the traditional spiritual, which is being raised to a new level of co-participation.

DH: We have individuals who study our work. We have web talks, as well as different facilitators who share our cosmology of science and the ancient philosophy of the Bible. We put the two together because there really is no separation between past, present, and future and between science and religion. It is all part of a higher cosmology of divine truth. JJ: We have other books I would like to recommend, one of which is entitled The Overself Awakening. DH: This book that we co-wrote is about 72 phases of personal consciousness growth, showing the process that many people experience in their search for higher consciousness. JJ: It shows how our psyche can think and work multi-dimensionally.

What do you do to renew yourself in the face of all this work? JJ: We meditate in the morning and the evening. Meditation is a methodology for connecting you with The All and that we invite all people to do in their own way, whether in silence, with music, or focusing on the trouble spots of Mother Earth. It is important to realize that we are here to heal the divisions and come up with solutions. We are also here on Mother Earth to learn certain lessons and overcome challenges that brought us into incarnation. As we solve these problems, we believe we will graduate as cosmic citizens and, ultimately, work in the University of the Cosmos. We need to be prepared for the great drama when humanity fully wakes up to its multidimensional existence.

DH: Meditation is important for everyone, whether it be accomplished through prayer or sitting in silence, whatever your tradition. However, even if you are just quiet for just a little while, you align yourself with the greater Cosmos. Then you can also open your heart chakra, which allows the cells inside your body to take a moment to breathe and relax in this alignment. Meditation can be used for attaining higher states of consciousness, connecting to the Divine as well as for healing the body as we are constantly exposed to pollution from Wi-Fi networks, etc. We need to take time to allow our body, our mind, and our soul-spirit to realign, otherwise, we are going to be caught in the chaos and there is probably going to be more and more chaos with climate change and other planetary events.

What do you do for fun? JJ: Our fun is in our service to humanity. Fun is when you feel the heartbeat of children in Africa and South America or you feel people change who had experienced hostility. We created textbooks that provide some answers to the historic questions of life and which show how we are all interconnected. In the end, we discover that we are truly living sons and daughters of the Divine Being, discovering ourselves in the Infinite Way of Creation.

DH: Now some scientists are coming into agreement that we are here not from a Big Bang of randomness, but a patterning associated with a specific unfoldment of the forces of nature, just as our body has signs of the Fibonacci spiral that can be seen in our hands or the cochlea of our ear. It’s the Spiral of Life associated with the Fibonacci series or the Golden Mean that seems to be in the geometry of spiral galaxies. The Mayans talked about Ix Zakal Nok, the Lady Cloth Weaver, since the ancients saw in the complex star patterns of the heavens, certain specific–not random–patternings. As the same sacred geometry appears within us, we see how we are all interconnected. It’s important that we find a balance between what is within and without, as well as above, below, and around us.

JJ: We feel a new garment is now arising, a multidimensional garment that will allow us to participate more fully within the realms of the Divine Spirit, the Holy Spirit. We’ve illustrated this in The 72 Sacred Names of the Myriad Expressions of The Divine Mother. This anthropological study of sacred language and sacred geometry includes the 12 major cultures of the world. In all, we must discover within and without, that we are divine sparks connected to each other and to every level of Life, from the micro-universe to the macro-universe of the Godhead. Soon we will understand our ultimate Being!

Books

Giza’s Industrial Complex, 2019 (with James Brown)

Mind Dynamics in Space and Time, 2016 (with Elizabeth Rauscher)

The 72 Sacred Names of the Myriad Expressions of The Divine Mother, 2015

The Overself Awakening, 2011
The Seventy-Two Living Divine Names of the Most High, 2009

The Gospel of Mary: A Text of Mary Magdalene with Commentary, 2008

End of Suffering, 2006 (with Russell Targ)

Consciousness, Energy and Future Science, 2002

Pistis Sophia, Text and Commentary, 1999

The Book of Knowledge: The Keys of Enoch®, 1973

Videos

Gates of Light, 2016

Voice of Africa, 2015

Initiation, 2003

Cosmic Destiny, 2000

The Light Body, 1999

Merkabah, Voyage of a Star Seed, 1997

Endnotes

¹https://www.masaru-emoto.net/en/science-of-messages-from-water/

2 https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/12-2.htm

3 2014 issue of the Journal of Scientific Exploration (Vol. 28, No. 1) titled “Stock Market Prediction Using Associative Remote Viewing by Inexperienced Remote Viewers.”